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  • John 6:43 am on November 9, 2015 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , sharon homes, wonderland murders   

    Sharon Holmes Outline On John’s Life 

    From Sharon’s nine page outline, obtained by Mike Sager back in 1988. She had first given the outline to the LA Times and the television program “A Current Affair”. I got it from a college project posted online. Credit to Elon Green.

    It’s an amazing read. Just some tidbits:

    John did poor in school, spent most of his leisure time roaming the woods of rural Ohio – hunting/fishing. John was also into furniture and home repair/remodeling. Besides school, these are things that Holmes had in common with Ron Launius, who was an outdoors-man and had father who was a very successful cabinetmaker – could explain a bit about their one-time friendship apart from drug use. Ron was the one who tolerated him around the house, while Billy despised and did not trust him (according to Tracy McCourt).

    My notes:

    Holmes was left near the scene and when he got to his car, he tore up his bloody clothes and put them in bins between Hollywood and Glendale. Sharon lived in Glendale, where he was headed.

    Mike Sager describes Sharon perfectly as the fifties-style wife, who would suffer for her husband, and she did. Marriage was still “for better or worse” and it got worse.

    Holmes was arrested twice – in Ventura and New Jersey. He was an informant for 7-8 years. He also ran the payroll for the porn shoots, delivering cash, etc. to the sets.

    John’s oldest brother Eddie was “a hillbilly, felt to be stupid by John” and “never successful except for having kids.”

    His brother Dale was “most envied, everything that John was not.”

    John worked as a “shoplifting detective” at a store in the late 60s. This may have given him insight into how to be a good thief and how to spot opportunities to steal.

    The nine page outline begins:

    “There is nobody on the face of the earth who knew and understood him better than I, having spent 17 years of living and growing to adulthood with him. I, unlike him have no reason to hide the truth about him and our life together.”

    and ends with:

    “His dream was to become rich & famous. How truly ironic to realize at the end of his life, that the selling of his body & spirit and the destruction of his soul had rendered him infamous, pitiable, and alone, and away from those who loved him for what he once was and for what he could have been.”

    Sharon's own handwriting

    Sharon’s own handwriting

    • Dave 1:25 pm on November 9, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Great stuff — thanks. Would love to see that outline in its entirety.

    • Ken 2:32 pm on November 9, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Glad to see you back in the saddle again with your KICK ASS website digging up even more in depth info on Holmes and the WONDERLAND killings. Back in 1980 and 81 I was an 18 YO Marine stationed at Camp Pendelton about 60 miles down the coast and we used to hang out in the LA/Hollywood area a lot on the weekends. I remembber both The 7 Seas and the Starwood. Never went into the 7 Seas but did go to the STARWOOD on several occaisions.
      Thinking back on this now 35 years later I wish I had paid more attention to what was going on There and then….LOL!

      • John 5:13 am on November 10, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        Thanks Ken.
        In ’81, I was in fifth grade. We were having dinner in front of the TV in the living room, like we always did, either watching Carol Burnett Show or the news. I remember the murders being mentioned on the national news.

      • Gayle 1:44 am on November 11, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        The Starwood was MAGIC!!!**

    • Jill Nelson 3:44 pm on November 10, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Great stuff, John! It’s interesting to read Sharon’s own words. Just a couple of thoughts re: your notes. Regarding the “bloody” clothes. In one of her accounts made to the L.A. Times in April 1988, Sharon said that John had come to Glendale, gone into their bedroom, and “crawled into bed in his bloody clothes.” According to Sharon, John had no explanation as to the state of his clothes other than having been in “an acccident.” If this is indeed the case, it begs the question whether John discarded his clothing en route between Hollywood and Glendale. There is also the possibility/probability of him having left blood stains in his car — fresh from the crime scene. Did he discard his clothes prior to getting into his vehicle? As we know, there are/were varying accounts provided by Sharon, Dawn, (John), and also Bill Amerson, who claimed that Holmes had (also) visited him following the murders.
      A comment about John’s older brother Dale. He might have been revered, yet when he received a parting antique gift sent from John while John was dying in the Veteran’s hospital, Dale destroyed it in a most violent manner. I understand there were many emotions at play, but I do question that kind of behaviour. Dale is also (likely) responsible for omitting John’s name from their mother’s obituary. It wasn’t David. Like him or despise him, John was family. Would his mother have wanted that?
      It would have been fascinating had Sharon H. written a book.

    • Jim 8:59 am on November 16, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Does anyone know if John’s older brother Eddie is still alive?
      I believe Dale is still alive and lives in Pataskala.
      I passed through the town a couple of years ago but thought better of asking around about the family.

    • Tom McC 2:21 pm on November 17, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Interesting stuff. My brother was getting his MD from USC, doing jail rounds, another doctor,
      I think he was named Zook, introduced Holmes to him behind bars saying he was a movie star.
      My brother didn’t realize who the “movie star” was for weeks. It was all over the news, strange
      seeing Christine Lund or other LA newscasters referring to “JOhnny Wadd.” What memories.
      Porn was everywhere. Now you can’t even show tits in a movie, everything has been Disneyfied.

  • John 8:28 am on June 23, 2014 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , wonderland murders   

    Just A Few Things… All Wonderland 

    Hi, just a few things today, before I lose focus and forget to post them.

    The link to the Georgiana Steele-Waller free e-book is finally here. She was the young lady, who like Julia Negron was a 60s model at first, married a music star… and in the 80s, had a brush with Wonderland. In her case, it was one of Nash’s cronies, she says…. Read more here. A creepy story.

    CJ sends this…

    The italics are mine. I was glad that I was quite close in my original Occam’s Razor research assessment of that neighborhood at least (all things being equal, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions is the answer):

    I lived on Princeton Avenue (in Stockton) when the Launius family was there. In fact, my family still keeps the place and remains in contact with old friends and neighbors. The neighborhood was designed for “Baby Boomers” (I read that too) returning from WWII. Small homes (approx. 1200 square feet), large yards for children and really not much else. The “Country Club” area is much more opulent, but boating (1,000 miles of waterways) and golfing is close so we took advantage of the proximity. We were moderate/low income families. The Launius family rented a home on our street for maybe . . . one year. I will check with a friend to confirm this. They were three beautiful boys (blonde/blue-eyed) and so out-of-control (Ron, Rickey and Dave). A loud, raucous . . . . crazy, screaming family! Now, that I find that “Wonderland” is a real story about real people that I actually knew, my head is spinning! How do people get this messed up?

    I am in touch with CJ as a source for the book. Stay tuned.

    Oh! and speaking of Julia Negron… this is the man who went with her to Wonderland that fateful afternoon. He is a musician/songwriter. He co-wrote the sad tune “You Are So Beautiful” with Dennis Wilson and Billy Preston. Nice royalties, I bet. Small world when it comes to Wonderland. Bruce is still around, and doing musical theater or something these days, and quite successful, so I hope he’s not mad that I outed him.

    Rock on 1977!!


    • Nicole 4:40 pm on February 7, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Very late posting but always wondered about the wonderland murders. I’ve study everything I can online. I have some questions, maybe you can give me your option… Who do you think let john in that night? It’s looks like Barbra was still asleep when attacked. She’s on the floor right by the couch in a blanket, plus she wasn’t a regular there. Why would she let someone in? If billy or joy let john in.. How did the killers get to Ron without waking him? Wouldn’t their be a struggle or confortation in the livingroom, that surely would have woke up the house! Plus Billy and joys room way after rons. Why didn’t Susan or Ron hear them coming up the stairs? Billy and joy are the only ones who looked like they knew what was coming. I think it’s joys voice.. They heard yelling “please don’t kill me” If the police was watching joys house.. Why didn’t they see the killers going in?? I have a ton of questions, but I’ll only ask a few. Thanks hope you have time to answer them. We will never know for sure the answers to these questions, but it’s nice to have different ideas.. Thanks again, nicole

  • John 1:01 pm on February 25, 2014 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , james fuller, jim fuller, surfaris, wonderland murders   

    Day After Nash Robbery, Lind Visits Old Rock Star Friend 

    Wonderland investigator, Nils Grevillius, interviewed David Lind’s brother and it’s also in the Lind preliminary testimony, that the day before the murders, Lind left Wonderland to go and visit his old buddy, James Fuller, in Monrovia, CA. That’s a good 30 miles away from Wonderland. Jim Fuller was lead guitarist for The Surfaris:

    While there at James’ house, Dave says in his testimony that he met a few girls (Cindy and Terri) who gave him a ride back to the San Fernando Valley, where he partied with them all night. The valley is much closer to Wonderland so Dave was working his way back I guess. In the prelim testimony for Holmes’ trial, he does not say they were prostitutes. It does not really matter, but he may have told cops that, or mentioned it at the Nash/Diles trials. The “spending the night with prostitutes in the Valley” thing could be an embellishment by a writer. I don’t know if they were or not. If they were, Big Dave was being tag-teamed while poor Barbara was alone on the couch.

    The next morning, Wednesday, July 1, David spoke with the fence, Fat Howard Cook, who knew about the killings and put Dave in touch with Jimmy Arias AKA Mr. Vegas. Then, Mr. Vegas spoke with David and said “Don’t go to the house, everyone is dead”. Mr. Vegas also had a fellow with him named “Paul” (most likely Paul Kelly?). They were to take Ron to the airport for a court date in Sacramento. In the prelim testimony, David never mentions Fat Howard, but Nils says Dave spoke to Fat Howard first, just like in the movie Wonderland.

    Anyhow, Nils said that Jim Fuller was in the Surfaris, the surf rock band who did “Wipe Out”. Jim is known as the Godfather of Surf Music:


    His name is on the “Hollywood Rock Walk of Fame”.

    • Bonnie Brae 7:02 pm on February 25, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      Thanks for this information John! Great blog.

    • kdimmick 11:33 pm on March 3, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      Man, you sure do know how to dig up all those unknown nuggets of info on this… Fuller is still alive too. You ought to see if you could get an interview from him.

    • Gayle 9:46 pm on August 3, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      Very interesting!

  • John 8:52 am on February 17, 2014 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: gerry brown, wonderland murders   

    Old Article Shows Location of Governor Brown’s House 

    Early news reports indicated that Governor Jerry Brown’s house was “right around the corner” from Wonderland. Well, I had never been able to locate his home in Laurel Canyon, but according to this old map, it truly is “right around the corner”.

    I would like to have been a fly on the wall at Jerry’s breakfast table that morning when he cracked open the newspaper to see his private home shown on a map with two famous murder scenes.

    July 3, 1981. Associated Press.

    July 3, 1981. Associated Press.

    • localarts 9:40 am on February 17, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      I bet Jerry shit a brick when he read that. I wonder if he moved to the “valley” afterwards.

      • Bobby 1:57 am on February 19, 2014 Permalink | Reply

        I reckon Eddie Nash shat an even bigger brick when he found out that a woman had survived the attacks and there were detectives by her bedside! 😉

    • Gayle 9:52 pm on August 3, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      Noguchi was definitely the LA coroner at the right time! Cool newspaper clip!

  • John 3:22 pm on November 5, 2013 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , wonderland murders   

    Hovsep Mikaelian Is A Free Man 

    Joe MacLean, aka Hovsep Mikaelian, is now a free man. Between his trips to Vegas and Armenia, however, he works selling used cars, which is probably a front for his parole and court obligations to get a paycheck. I doubt he’s allowed to work in bars, casinos, entertainment, scams, etc., unless it’s secret. And to spite the court, I read that he is only making $50 monthly payments towards his fine. $50 is the minimum, according to an article about Joe’s release. His slimy lawyer claims that Joe has no income. On the eve of his arrest, he transferred “six figures” to an overseas bank, according to the Justice Dept.

    Joe served hard time for this RICO stuff though, and was only released a few years ago. Shit man, he hated jail, look at the quotes below to see how much he hated it. He was scrambling to win that appeal, but in cry-baby ways. If Joe was indeed involved in Wonderland, as the witness stated to the Grand Jury, then he served the most time of them all. Like 14 years. Diles and Nash served maybe 3 to 5 years each at best for their other crimes and L.A. county jail time shenanigans.

    I guess that “Joe MacLean” had been in jail about 3-4 years by this point after his 1995 arrest for racketeering and tax fraud, among other charges …. and wow, this guy is a real a piece of work, his own sister-in-law turned on him:

    In August 1996, Mikaelian’s sister-in-law, a designated paralegal for Mikaelian, called Stephen Larson, the Assistant United States Attorney (“AUSA”) in Mikaelian’s case, and made an appointment to meet with him. AUSA Larson and the paralegal met the next day. AUSA Larson immediately called defense counsel after the meeting, and followed up with a letter. The letter stated that the paralegal told AUSA Larson that she had just met with Mikaelian in jail, and that Mikaelian wanted her to claim (1) she was having an affair with AUSA Larson, (2) Mikaelian’s counsel was a “double agent” for the government, (3) Mikaelian had been under the influence of drugs when he signed the plea agreement, (4) Mikaelian had never read the plea agreement, and (5) Mikaelian’s counsel had never explained the agreement to him. The paralegal wanted to be relieved of her position.

    Later on, this happens:

    Mikaelian has filed to allege that the heroin he distributed was of such low purity that it took his case outside the “heartland” of the applicable Guideline. Although he characterizes four percent heroin as “very impure” or “junk” heroin, he presented no evidence that heroin of four percent purity is unusually impure, nor did he even indicate that the expert witness he requested would so testify.

    Mikaelian’s 4% grade heroin was just above the lowest street level purity: 2%. The court ruled that street level purity is generally 2 to 10%.

    And the best part:

    The district court declined to exercise its discretion to depart downward based on Mikaelian’s mental condition, including his severe headaches. Such a discretionary refusal to depart is not reviewable on appeal.

    And he has only paid a few hundred dollars, claiming he has no income or assets:

    Mikaelian contends it was an abuse of discretion to order him to pay restitution, jointly and severally with his codefendants, in the amount of $2,435,280.

    US v. Mikaelian, 1999. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

    • localarts 6:42 pm on November 5, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Poor pitiful Joe. At 50 bucks a month he’ll be debt free in the year 6087. He should order “Used Cars” from Netflix staring Kut Russell. He might learn something or pick up some ideas.

      • John 3:40 pm on November 6, 2013 Permalink | Reply

        Used Cars is the greatest. I was at the pub just talking about it a few months ago. “You can’t fuck with the President!” … “why not? He fucks with us”

    • localarts 9:53 pm on November 6, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Yeah, it’s aclassic no doubt

    • Dave 8:25 pm on November 8, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      *LOL* I’ve met Steve Larson a few times and am friends with a longtime friend of his. From everything I can tell, Larson is a straightforward and honest person — basically the exact opposite of Mikaelian. The fact that Mikaelian was apparently trying to persuade his sister-in-law to claim she was having an affair with Larson would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetic.

    • GARY 3:38 pm on December 27, 2013 Permalink | Reply


    • John 6:33 am on October 17, 2015 Permalink | Reply

  • John 6:01 am on September 2, 2013 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: articles, bio, books, , wonderland murders   

    A Wonderland Library & Reading List 

    A reader recommended a post that lists all of the published works for Wonderland, as far as books and articles, etc. So here we go, please add anything that I forgot in the comments section. I’m brain dead today so add away! Add movies and documentaries as well. I still think it’s funny that Eddie was the only Wonderland character to star in a Hollywood production (The Cisco Kid episode).

    Documentaries and Films

    • E True Hollywood Story. I have not seen this one in a while.
    • The full length British documentary. About 1 hour long.
    • 20 Most Horrifying Hollywood Murders. I think #1 here was Charles Manson.
    • Exhausted starring John Holmes.
    • Wadd, The Legend of John Holmes.
    • Wonderland, 2003 film.
    • Boogie Nights, 1997 film.


    • The Other Hollywood by Legs McNeil.
    • A Life Measured in Inches by Jill C. Nelson and Jennifer Sugar.
    • Long Time Money and Lots of Cocaine by Rodger Jacobs.
    • Porn King by John and Laurie Holmes.
    • Three Dog Nightmare by Chuck Negron

    Four On The Floor by Tom Lange etc has never been published.


    For finding info on particular people or events, use the Search field on this blog. You can find topical articles, photos, documents, outside links, et al.


    • MissMouse 6:11 am on September 2, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Thank you very very much. You just keep proving that you absolutely rock John. 🙂

      • Bobby 10:18 am on September 2, 2013 Permalink | Reply

        Nice list John! How much does Chuck Negron’s book devote to the Wonderland house/murders? Since he was frequenting there quite a bit does he divulge much about the personalities residing there. Keep up the great work mang!

        • John 8:13 am on September 3, 2013 Permalink

          It’s discussed, but from his point of view, as a user…etc. About 10 pages.

    • Brandy 2:07 pm on September 2, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      The British Documentary was really good. I recently saw it on youtube, a must see.

      • Brandy 2:09 pm on September 2, 2013 Permalink | Reply

        What about “A Road Through Wonderland” by Dawn Schiller?

        • Tori 3:11 am on October 8, 2013 Permalink

          A road through wonderland is a great book and dawn seems like such an amazing person. I am friends with her on fb and we talk and I talk to her about person problems and can open up to her and she makes Sure I’m ok It’s very touching 🙂

    • criticextraordinaire 2:53 pm on September 2, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Keep this stuff coming, John. We all want to keep learning new information about Johnny Wadd and the Wonderland Gang.

  • John 8:41 am on August 28, 2013 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , wonderland murders   

    The Wonderland Murders Wikipedia Video 

    This is really cool.

    Turn up your speakers.

    • localarts 11:15 am on August 28, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Cool Vid? Did I hear that computer generated voice say Holmes was a POS?

    • Bonnie Brae 9:22 pm on August 29, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      These people all died one month shy of Mtv’s birth that is the biggest travesty.

    • localarts 8:53 am on August 30, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Yes indeed. I can picture every one crowded around the television watching Video Killed The Radio Star.

  • John 12:16 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: negron, wonderland murders   

    An Insider Speaks About Joy, Holmes & Wonderland 

    I have been having an email discussion with a nice lady who frequents this blog and also says that she frequented 8763 Wonderland, and that she knew Joy Miller quite well. Read on… the comments in parentheses are mine.


    On the afternoon of July, 1, 1981, she was with a male friend walking over to 8763 Wonderland (she was living down the street at the time). She often used Joy as a drug connection, so they decided to stop by that afternoon. These were the “someones” who mentioned to the movers next door that bodies were inside. She then went home to call the police. The movers also called police.

    I have cleaned up the typos, but this is what else she had to say:

    We were at the Wonderland house until about 9pm on the night of the murders. We went home and later Joy called us and asked us to come back over, but we decided to stay home.

    The couch in the living room, the roll top desk and a lot of the furniture at Joy’s, was ours. My husband had it in storage and let Joy use it. Of course we never asked for it back (after the murders). As she was a connection, Joy also had my wedding rings (from my first marriage and my second marriage) and God knows what else that belonged to us.

    Joy was very obsessed with my husband, it was an issue. Also interesting is that she set me up to be robbed as well. I did not know this, but while my husband was in the hospital once, my 2 sons and I stayed at the house for safety (in the Ron Launius guest room).. can you imagine? It was a very complicated thing (I don’t think Ron was around when this happened).

    But it’s the furniture you see… Every time i think of seeing Barbara Richardson and her blood on our couch, I cringe.

    FYI, I had no idea who John Holmes was, just some greasy guy hanging around to my knowledge. He told me once that he worked with kids in hospitals (an orderly?) .. I was shocked when homicide detectives came to my house with his picture and the info… They also told us they had various pictures of us entering the (Wonderland) house, as they had a stake out going on for months.

    In the trial, they put me on the stand. The Sunday before the murders, we were over there hanging with Joy and noticed the bunch of guys in a sedan pulling in (a Ford Granada?). When I asked Joy she said they were casing someone. But besides Billy, I did not pay attention to or know the others.

    We knew Joy a long time. Billy took her down to thug level.

    • Bonnie Brae 12:56 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Dear Mystery person,
      Thank you for the insight. Sounds like you should write a book. Great little morsels of info. Billy and Joy were such shady characters. I understand it was the drugs and I understand how low they can make a person sink. But to be set up for robbery by so called friends. That just flat out sucks! Also, fascinating spin about Joy having an obsession with your husband. I can see that. Totally goes with what I have seen of her personality. Curious about the Sedan. In your opinion was it La Policia or Nash?

      • John 1:08 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

        The sedan, I think, was the gang coming back from casing Nash (night before the robbery).

    • dreamweaverjenn 12:59 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Wow! I’m fascinated by this story!!!! You should definitely write a book!

    • Bonnie Brae 1:08 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      I also like and respect that you can come out and say that Joy and Billy were your connections. That is all readers want to hear, complete honesty. I don’t like reading a book where a person sinks to low depths and blames all of their faulted behavior on their boyfriend. Makes you feel cheated.
      I loved the book Permanent Midnight. I love that Jerry Stahl can write about his many flaws cause we are all flawed. He sinks to some pretty low depths. But I think writing about them and admitting them publicly is his way of coming to terms with some pretty messed up stuff.

    • localarts 1:22 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      The Sunday before the murders would have been the 28 of June, the robbery was going down the following morning. David Lind arrived back at Wonderland on the 28th. Lind stated Joy Miller was the only one there and the rest of the gand was casing Nash’s house. Mrs X probably left prior to Lind’s arrival
      and Mrs X statement would corroborate David Lind’s testimony.

      • John 1:36 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

        She told me that Joy once lived in Santa Monica and had a very nice place. I guess this is before Billy was around. Interesting, because a year ago I found an address for Joy in SM, but was not sure it was where she lived. It was a nice place, so that makes sense now. So maybe I found a bonafide address where Joy used to live? Wish I could find that address again!

    • swrworkingman 1:46 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Whats so fascinating about this whole case is that it is so many different parties involved and so many point of views and aspects. Now yet another!
      Billy took her down to thug Level.. In fact, to me Billy appears as the most enigmatic of them all. The fact that he was a crane operator, the kind looking guy in all the pictures, and on the other hand all the tattoos, drugs and hard boiled criminality. Makes me really wonder how this man really was as a person. Not sure at all he was like they portrayed him in the movie

    • dreamweaverjenn 3:49 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      All very fascinating. Billy did have what I deem “a kind face” but looks can and sometimes are deceiving.

    • localarts 5:42 pm on August 26, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Funny how she referred to Holmes as a “greasy guy” I guess outside of the porn community he was.

      • John 8:38 am on August 27, 2013 Permalink | Reply

        and he worked with sick kids. Sounds like a great disco-era pick up line.

    • John 8:42 am on October 23, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Here’s what she told me about the dogs and stuff:

      frankly I don’t remember too well, they were not warm fluffy dogs, more like pit/rott mutt mix… I could be totally wrong, that’s just the picture I have in my head and maybe I think that because I am a dog lover but never had much attachment to joys dogs. I think it was Billy’s thing.. I think he thought they were fabulous tough dogs, but I think they were just mutts. I never remember them being in the house

      I saw a post about Billy. He was not that good looking, he had bad pock marks. The best thing about him was he loved Joy, but he didn’t bring much to the table. He was like a low level loser thief, not some mastermind. Joy by her hooking up with him had deteriorated even more. She was getting older, had drug busts, cancer, a heroin addict etc etc. So it was just another step down when she took up with him. But she had been alone for a long time, on the fringes of rock scene – and as I said, had a thing for my hubby, which of course did not pan out. it was after Billy came around that the “ripping off dealers” thing started, I was shocked – (we still thought of ourselves as high end users.) The gang of fools that arrived later I didn’t pay attention to but they proved lethal. That Billy and Joy would go along with this plan shows how stupid/desperate the scene was. She could be rude with me, so we weren’t exactly best buddies. (Hubby thing, remember, it was him she really wanted around, not me.) So that night when she offered up some free stuff we should both have seen the red flags… My hubby writes about that robbery that joy set up on me in his book. it was a different scene when I first met her at that Westside place of hers. Name rock stars were showing up at her place, coke and pills, not so much dope… but in the end it was really all about heroin.

    • John 9:03 am on October 23, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      and some more info from Julia. Joy once lived in Brentwood… same area as OJ lived.

      I’m lazy, and my life gets in the way – political activism plus 8 grandkids.. Alice (Cooper) I knew forever , he is way straighter than anyone thinks.. beer, tv, etc (though he’s been sober a long time now)
      I know her (Joy’s) daughter worked at the record plant (recording studio?) so there was some activity. I looked in chuck’s book and he says Brentwood.. okay, I would buy that. I remember the building and the apt..
      I think Eddie Money was there once, Chuck knows, but i never paid too much attention. – i was more irritated w joy, who would lure Chuck over w pills (reds) and give him enough to pass out and he would be comatose there for days. I would call and she would give me the “he’s asleep” – We had kids, I actually got mad enough once to drive over to brentwood or whatever it was and push her up against a wall and tell her to stop it. Gotta remember chuck and I had 2 boys, I was at home a lot taking care of kids and would send him out to score. Joys act drove me nuts.. but as she got older and Billy entered the scene she stopped it… (guess she gave up.. understand she was older, kind of stumpy, not exactly hot.)

    • jimmy---chicago 2:22 pm on December 24, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      julia is starting to sound as screwey as everyone else .I mean if some body was trying to get with my spouse or girl I would not be buying drugs from that person 2 major rock stars for husbands and she is trying 2 cop from someone trying to take her husband away something does not sound right about this situation

      • JustAFan 10:11 pm on December 25, 2013 Permalink | Reply

        Not a fair thing to say Jimmy. She sounds credible and you can’t ever predict (especially back then) how people act in relationships.

        • jimmy---chicago 9:29 am on February 2, 2014 Permalink

          Well read her husbands book she claims joy set her and chuck up for a robbery according to chuck they were robbed because julia and chuck had a 1500 dollar a day habit and joy was giving them free dope when he was out of money and he happened to be out of money a lot so when joy could not pay this guy fat herbie or what ever his name is she got smacked around buy this guy and gave up chucks name also julia claims they gave furniture to poor joy and didnt ask for it back OH HOW NICE chuck says that when he ran out of money he traded joy antique furniture for dope but julia dosent say that she makes it look like she is taking pity on joy and giving all this nice stuff to her out of the kindness of her heart when in reality she owes that to joy because of their dope habit . So you cant predict how people act in relationships but all I can say is it is fucking stupid to bring your husband or wife around someone who is trying to take them away from you.Julia makes it look like they (ronnie,joy billy and david ) are low life scumbags this is just simply sour grapes on her part classic pot calling the kettle black.

        • John W 11:11 am on February 2, 2014 Permalink

          Good points, Jimmy. I know Chuck was broke in those days, and it seems like a bunch of Monday monrning quarterbacking by Julia. It seems like Joy & company were constantly dealing with broke, strung out addicts and when you’re a dealer, you do what you can to get paid. I want to buy Chuck’s book so damn bad but it’s expensive as hell for some reason!

    • jimmy---chicago 12:55 pm on February 2, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      Just order it at the library I bought it several years ago when howard stern interviewed him dont dare spend more than cover price its not worth it but it is a good book well most of it but it turns into this how too tell if your loved one is a junkie type thing the last quarter of the book.He said he sold his gold albums for dope,had a tooth with a minor cavity pulled just so he could get a pain pill prescription he also claims he was walking the la streets with a sign will sing for money,went after dealers who he owed money to with a shot gun although he clames the wonderland boys were beaten to death with baseball bats.He says also that his voice is simular to steve perry of journey (im not a journey fan) but I really think he is streaching things when it comes to his voice I like chucks voice better but perry is more of a singer then chuck is I mean range wise and style

  • John 8:02 pm on August 12, 2013 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , helen hennessy, , , wonderland murders   

    Thanks To You! 200,000 Page Views In 2 Years ;-) 

    I love you all.

    Thanks for stopping by and killing time with me, as we solve the mysteries of the past, and shed light on the future! There is nothing we cannot do!

    “As if you could kill time, and not injure eternity” –David Thoreau




    • localarts 8:42 pm on August 12, 2013 Permalink | Reply

      Great tune! Very appropriate for 200k+ hits. Just remember us little people when you go on the talk show circuit.

    • Bobby 1:49 am on August 13, 2013 Permalink | Reply


  • John 11:11 am on August 9, 2013 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: wonderland murders   

    An Endless Array Of Wonderland Signs 

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